On Purpose with Jay Shetty

00:01 Hey, it's Jay. I don't know what your day's been like, but I was just thinking about you for a minute. And I hope you're being a little patient with yourself because you deserve it. And yeah, I'll talk to you soon. 00:24 Today, we're speaking with Michaela Naguera, one of the biggest and most influential beauty creators in the world, with more than 20 million followers across social media. We're going beyond what you see online to talk about the person behind it all, the reality of massive success, and the pressure of living so publicly. Please welcome to On Purpose, Michaela Naguera. 00:47 Hi. Michaela, welcome to On Purpose. Hi, Jay. Very happy to be here. Thank you for having me. 00:52 Thank you. I'm so grateful to have you here. You've been so private about your journey for so long. Yeah. Why was now the right time and this the right place to open up? 01:03 I feel like I'm at a turning point in my life. You know, I'm almost 30, and my 20s have been a really interesting journey for me, and I'm beginning to feel like I'm really learning who I am and who I want to be, and I knew I wanted to save space to talk about this, and who better than you, so... 01:22 Thank you for trusting me. I don't take that for granted. And I've been following your journey for quite some time and it's pretty remarkable what you've achieved, but I'm fascinated by the Michaela that we don't see or don't fully understand. And I heard you say recently that you only ever saw yourself as Michaela, the influencer. 01:41 And I'm intrigued if you take away the money and the makeup and the businesses and the success, how do you define who Michaela is today? 01:50 So I think I've always been someone who is very outspoken, very loud about who I am, very proud about who I am, just because I find that we're in a society where everyone wants you to fit in and be someone maybe you're not. And I grew up always wanting to be exactly who I am, Michaela. And that is someone who is very curious, very—I'm a Gemini. I don't know if you're into astrology— But I'm a very curious person. I'm very, very creative. I grew up in a very artistic household. 02:20 My mom's a professional artist. My dad is an antique appraiser and collector. And I was just always surrounded by that. So I'm very known to be eclectic and artsy with my makeup and just different. But I never wanted to fit in. I always wanted to be different. And I kind of like that, you know. 02:40 I'm a Virgo. Okay. So I'm giving it away now. 02:43 So you're into the astrology. 02:44 Yes, totally, totally. I don't know so much, but I enjoy the conversation around it. If you want to make any judgments about me, you can, feel free. 02:53 I love that you just said that you liked to be different. Yeah, I love being different. 02:57 And I think most people just want to fit in, especially when they're young. What's your earliest memory of being comfortable being different 03:06 From birth. I mean, I really give credit to my mom because my mom knows how to sew. So she would actually sew all of my outfits and she would make these really fun, crazy, colorful, patterned dresses. So, you know, I'm going to school with a big bow on my head, these crazy dresses that my mom made, and she would actually make the matching dress for herself. So that's how you know that I really get it from her. And she was just always so open about who she was. And I really admired that from a young, young age. And I get that from her. 03:37 So growing up, all going to school, I always looked different than everybody else because of these outfits I would wear. But teachers always appreciated it and said, she's really interesting. And I feel like she's going to do something really interesting in her life because I was just so different from everybody else, which is not a bad thing. I never saw it as a bad thing. 03:55 But you experienced bullying for that, right? 03:57 Oh, absolutely. 03:57 When you were younger, like for the way you looked. And even recently, I've heard you say that, and this was in your own words, you were saying, I feel I'm a beauty influencer who doesn't think I'm beautiful. And like, you know, you're seen in that way. Like, how did you deal with that bullying and that othering when you were younger? Because I imagine you didn't have the success at that time. You didn't have what you've built at that time. How did you deal with it? 04:19 Well, I began wearing makeup really young. I was only 10 when I began doing the winged eyeliner and lipstick and everything like that. I was the only kid at school wearing makeup at the time. And I got really good at it really young. So by the time I'm, you know, 14, 15, 16, I am going to school with a full beat on my face. And I was really the only one doing that. And people definitely look down on that. Especially when I grew up in a very almost conservative area where everyone dresses relatively conservative and no one's really doing things that are considered different. 04:53 So me being that type of person, it was a challenge, but I never gave up on it because I always knew that I was meant to do that. And even in high school, I decided really early on that I wanted to do something in social media and online. So, you know, I'm 14 creating a YouTube channel. I'm 14 creating a blog about beauty. People always laughed and said, this is ridiculous. You're not going to go anywhere with this. Delete your YouTube channel. My classmates would go on my YouTube channel and comment the worst things and hoping I would just stop. 05:28 And I never did. 05:30 I love that confidence. 05:32 That's remarkable. I've always found that really interesting about myself. I'm a very insecure person, and I struggle a lot with my self-esteem, but I have a lot of confidence about who I am. 05:43 Explain that to me. Isn't that weird? Yeah, explain that to me. It's not weird. 05:47 It's just fascinating. 05:48 It's fascinating. Yeah, it's fascinating. Yeah, I'm really self-aware. I don't know why that is. But I'm very self-aware of my insecurities, self-aware of how low my self-esteem is, self-aware of my mental health and how I self-sabotage myself in certain ways because of mental health. So because I know all of these things, I feel like I have a really good sense of who I am. And that allows me to be confident in the person I am and who I'm becoming. At the end of the day, when I lay my head on the pillow, those insecurities still exist. 06:19 But I know at the end of the day, it's all in my head. And I know I'm capable of doing great things without letting those insecurities get in the way. 06:27 Instagram teen accounts come with automatic protections that limit who can contact teens, the content they can see, and the time they spend on the app. Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com forward slash teen accounts. naturally, I think we all see our flaws. We all know our insecurities, but we don't want those flaws and insecurities and shortcomings to block us from going out there and doing something incredible. And it feels like you've built up a healthy relationship with both of those things to some degree. 07:01 Talk to me about how you became aware of your insecurities or your shortcomings or whatever you see those as, but didn't let them block you. 07:11 When I decided to go on social media and really put myself out there, I mean, that's a big decision. I'm going to put my whole life online. 07:18 I think that was the moment where I really realized I am okay with who I am because I, if you've seen my videos, you know, I'm a little bit loud. I'm a little bit out there. I try to be funny. Sometimes I'm screaming in your face. I'm very clickbaity. Like there's a lot going on in my videos. But that is who I am when I'm with my safest group of people. Because I'm a Gemini, there's different versions of me. There's this soft version you're getting right now where I'm very composed and just I feel safe and I feel comfortable. But then when I'm around like family and friends and people I love, I'm very loud. 07:51 I'm very talkative. I'm almost annoying. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But I think when I went online and I took that safe experience, piece of me where I can be loud. I can be myself because you have to realize I'm filming these videos in a room by myself. So there's nothing making me say, oh, I can't be who I am. 08:10 And I film my videos almost as if it's a video diary where I'm just going to post this. And I at the time when I began on social media, it wasn't as if I thought anyone was going to see it. So I can just be myself, no problem. And then when I actually blew up online and saw that people actually enjoyed this persona, which is really not a persona. It is who I am at the end of the day, but they enjoyed the real me online. And I thought that was really cool that people appreciated that because I knew I was going to be different than the other beauty influencers, as I said. 08:43 I love hearing that. And I love seeing your success because to me, it's so affirming and reassuring to anyone out there because you hear this advice, right? Be yourself. And it always sounds cheesy and cringy and a bit awkward and whatever, but actually then you see people do it and you go, oh, people actually want that authenticity. Yeah. That people actually really gravitate towards someone like yourself who's putting their genuine self out there. 09:06 Yeah. 09:07 And there's all these people, millions and millions of people who are like, oh, Michaela, we just want you to be yourself. Like, we love the way you are. Like, that must feel so great. And at the same time, it elicits a reaction. But we'll get into that. I wanted to ask you, talk to me about where your love for makeup came from. Like you said, you grew up in this artistic home, in this visual home, your mom sewing your clothes for you. 09:27 What leads to you being fascinated with makeup? 09:30 Because I grew up in this very creative family, I'm looking at my father, who's the most historically smart person I've ever met. He collects antiques. He has an amazing collection. He's very artsy in that way. Then you have my mom painting these beautiful paintings, taking gorgeous photography. You have my brother who's doing video game drawings and really good at art. And then there was me. And I'm like, I have to be good at something. I have to be good at something. And my mom saw that in me right away because I was so open to being like her with the creativity and everything. 10:01 So she handed me an Avon catalog. And I'm like literally eight years old. Hands me an Avon catalog. And if you don't know what Avon is, it's this magazine. I do. My mom used to do Avon. Okay. 10:11 Yeah. 10:11 It's a magazine. You circle products and you can order them. We don't really do that anymore. But I said, okay, and I took a Sharpie, and I'm circling page after page of products, not knowing anything about makeup. I knew nothing about makeup. I didn't know what anything was, but my mom thought I would be into it, so she ordered me a bunch of Avon products, and the minute I picked them up, I never put them down. 10:32 Because I learned about makeup, I began going on YouTube. 10:35 I think for a lot of people who were into makeup, YouTube, beauty YouTube specifically, was a major place to learn everything you could about beauty. And I became obsessed. I became absolutely obsessed with all of the biggest beauty creators you can think of. I'm going home after school and the first thing I'm doing is throwing my backpack down and making sure I'm checking what these beauty creators have posted. I became so, so addicted to it in the best way. It became my saving grace. I mean, anyone who goes through high school knows it's a challenging time for a lot of people, myself included. 11:09 And I find that makeup was like that piece for me. It was that place where I felt really peaceful. But yeah, once I picked it up, I did not put it down. And people told me, you're going to grow out of this. You're going to grow out of this. And I always said, I'm going to go into a career in beauty. And they're like, you're going to be a makeup artist? Maybe, but it could be something else. I just knew I wanted to be in beauty. But I also knew I wanted to make a bigger impact than just being a makeup artist. I know that being a makeup artist is a really special job, but I wanted to do something even bigger because I just think that way. 11:41 I think really big all the time. 11:43 How did you get that bug of thinking big? Well, both of my parents owned businesses. So when you grow up in a household like that where you have parents who are hustling, my work ethic is just crazy. And I was like that in school, too. I was a grinder in school. I was that kid who would I would get up at 4 a.m. do a full beat so I could make my 6 a.m. bus every single day. I wouldn't miss breakfast either. And then I would love going to school. I love learning. I loved education so much. When I went to college, it was the best four years of my life. 12:15 I loved college so much. I just really loved school. So my parents put that work ethic in me and then going to school and seeing what you can truly accomplish with your life. 12:26 I've just always been so open to massive success and not afraid of it. 12:31 And everyone who's listening and watching, this is a Sunday. Me and Michaela are here on a Sunday just to prove that that work ethic is still there. Like we were talking about your schedule here. You've been in LA for a week. You're here for a few more days and you've been going back to back to back. You have a shoot after this. Like that work ethic is something that's still sustaining even today after all this success and after all this, you know, all the mega achievements you've had. Talk to me about the feeling that you have around You said you were 14 when you started your YouTube channel, like in the beginning? 13:01 Between 12 and 14. Yeah. Do you remember the first thing you ever posted? Oh, yeah. What was it? So it was a full makeup routine where in the video I'm using all of the Avon products I said. where I have my little Avon quad, and there was no audio. It was just I put music over because I was too scared to talk on camera. It was my first video, and it was just a video of me doing makeup, no talking, just kind of showing people how I do my routine. The lighting was horrible. I did film it on a camera, though, for my first YouTube video. 13:34 I asked for Christmas for a Canon camera, and my mom got it for me because she knew I wanted to do YouTube, and that was my first video on the camera. And I was so excited to do it. And I, you know, I had to learn how to edit at such a young age. So I'm downloading all these editing softwares and just trying to figure it out. How many views did it get? Oh, God, probably a hundred, maybe. You know, I sent it to all my family and friends, but that was it. 13:56 And how long did you keep that up for? 13:58 Oh, years. I kept it up most of high school, yeah. 14:00 Wow. And like you said, there were friends at school or other people telling you, you're going to outgrow this. This isn't your thing. This isn't going to work out. What would you say to someone who's young, has a dream, is building towards it, wants to start something, but they're hearing a lot of the criticism, hate, complaints, naysayers. What would you say to that person? 14:20 Well, I think there's different types of dreams, right? And some of these dreams that we have are considered outrageous. So when I was in high school, I was in a program called DECA. It's a business competition. And I actually entered this competition when I was 16. 14:37 And I wrote a 50-page business plan on how I could be successful as an influencer, knowing, having no idea that this would be my life now. Wow. 14:47 And I remember I presented this presentation in front of judges and they're like, huh? 14:54 Because this when I'm 16, this is 10 years ago. So influencing was a thing, but it wasn't like a huge thing. And the judges were definitely like, no way. 15:03 But I won, by the way. 15:05 I think I was just very convincing about I can make a business out of this. So after I did that business competition, people at school kind of saw that I was serious about this. I was legit. I want to be a beauty influencer. I knew that 10 years ago that I wanted to be a beauty influencer. And I would tell everybody, I would tell all my teachers, all my friends, everyone at school. And absolutely everyone said, that's not going to happen. 15:30 That's not going to happen. And I think it does come down to the fact that, one, I grew up in a very small town where a lot of people stay there. And it's just very quaint. And even the idea of going to New York City or L.A. is scary to a lot of people, including myself. The idea of growth, I think, when you come from a small town can be really scary. So even I experienced that, too. 15:52 Who did you look up to at the time that was doing this that made you feel you could do it? Or was it just self? 15:57 I was looking up to every single beauty influencer. Everyone you can think of. James Charles, Jeffree Star, Nikki Tutorials, Tati Westbrook, Jaclyn Hill, Manny MUA, Patrick Star. I was watching every single one. And I learned a lot of what I do in my videos from them. 16:13 And you're right that 10 years ago, people didn't know this could be a real thing. It's evolved so fast. I uploaded my first video 10 years ago. 16:22 And what platform was that on? 16:23 It was originally on YouTube and then on Facebook, which is where my content took off in the early days. And then YouTube and then Instagram came later. And then of course, TikTok and everything else. It's fascinating looking back because I remember being at the award shows, Streamys and Shortys and all these things in the early days. It's so different to what it is today. It's absolutely changed. Like now it's like a real career path and everyone has a plan. When we all started, I didn't know where it was going. And so it's pretty unbelievable to see it. 16:55 When you go back to your hometown now that you grew up in, what does that feel like for you? 16:59 Well, I actually just went back to my hometown to go to my high school. I donated a ton of makeup to my high school, and it was so interesting just walking through the halls and seeing where I grew up. My hometown is a place I hold close because it's where I really discovered that I could be different. So I love going back to my hometown. It's really special. 17:18 What was it like walking through those corridors and almost going back in time? 17:23 Spooky. I mean, it's a little bit eerie, like walking through and because your whole life during that time flashes before you, like all those years in high school, all those years where maybe you didn't believe in yourself or you were unsure. You know, you don't know where you're going to end up when you're in high school. You just don't. And when you walk and get your diploma, you don't know what happens after that. And I think a lot of people, including myself, were terrified after that, but obviously really excited, too. But there's also the fear, so. 17:50 What did it feel like to donate all that makeup? Oh, my God. How cool, right? 17:54 They had all the girls come into the cafeteria. I donated so much, like 20 huge bags. All of POV. 18:04 I definitely threw in a lot of POV. 18:06 And the girls just went crazy and filled up little goodie bags. So it was cool because I just know there's that one girl at the school, and maybe more now, who knows, who's doing makeup like I did and has a similar dream. There's got to be at least one. 18:20 Talk to me about how you got your job at Ulta. 18:23 Oh, gosh. Okay. So when I turned 16, I knew I needed a job in beauty. I want my life to be in beauty. I have to work in beauty. So I'm applying to everything you can think of. JCPenney Beauty, Nordstrom Beauty, Sephora, Ulta, everywhere that sold makeup, I'm applying to. Now, because I lived in a small town, I lived nowhere near any of these places, by the way. But I happened to live 10 minutes from an Ulta. 18:50 And I applied. I didn't hear anything for a really long time. Years. So backtracking a little bit. When I went to college, I decided for a brief period of time that I was going to give up makeup. 19:03 Because I didn't see a life where... 19:07 I was going to be successful in this. It was a moment of giving up. And I think we all have those moments. We all have those moments where we give up maybe just for a little bit. It doesn't mean forever. So there was a brief moment where I gave up. 19:21 And I ended up deleting my YouTube channel, deleting my beauty blog, deleted my beauty pages. I deleted everything, and I gave up. And then a few years into college, I'm a senior, and it's time to start thinking about jobs. So I'm getting my degree in communication, media, marketing, and I have to think about getting a job. And in my head, I thought, oh my gosh, if I don't work in beauty, I'm going to be miserable. 19:47 So that's when I decided, okay, I'm going to apply to Ulta again and just see what happens. 19:52 I applied, got the phone call a week later. I went to this interview with a full bead on. I had purple eyeshadow on. I did a purple cut crease. I'll never forget. I wanted to show that I could do makeup. So I did my best work that day. 20:06 And I went into this interview and I basically just was really honest with the manager. I said, I need this job. It was not in the sense that I need the money. I need this job because beauty is my life. And I'm going to feel so empty if I don't work in beauty. And I really need this chance. Obviously, I did all the other traditional interview questions. 20:26 But at the end of the interview, she was like, I actually applied for a cashier position. 20:31 And this was, wow, I'm already getting emotional talking about this because this was the first time someone believed in me. 20:53 You'll never forget the first time someone believes in you. 21:03 My ultimate manager looked at me and she said, I actually don't want you to be a cashier. I want you to be a makeup artist on the floor. 21:13 And mind you, I had no makeup experience except for the makeup I do on myself. 21:17 And I thought, oh my gosh, this is it. 21:20 This is someone seeing something in me. 21:26 And my first day was the best day ever. 21:29 You know, they handed me my brush belt, gave me brushes, my Alta name tag, and I was just so happy. I was so happy. 21:39 And I loved working there. It was everything. I learned everything you can imagine about beauty working there. 21:45 And that to me was a turning point in me thinking about my future. And I knew that beauty, that I did have a place in beauty. 21:55 I love how emotional you just got about the idea of someone believing in you. Yeah. Especially in your dream. 22:01 And I imagine your parents believed in you. Yeah. 22:05 I mean, I think for parents, a lot of the times they want the best for you, right? And when I go to my parents and say, I want to be a beauty influencer, it's like, okay. 22:14 Oh, interesting. Okay. 22:16 Yeah. So despite them being entrepreneurs and creative and everything... 22:21 I think they were scared. They were they knew they wanted me to work in beauty. But that concept of being an influencer, being a creator on the Internet, what is that? Because my parents I have older parents, so my parents are in their 70s. 22:37 So they didn't grow up with any of that. They don't know anything about that. My dad doesn't even know how to use a phone. 22:43 So they were skeptical, not skeptical that I would make something of myself. They really are always proud of me and believe in me and in every way you can think of. But it was more so the, oh, you want to do this on the Internet. That was a question for them, which I think it would be for any parent. 22:58 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, yeah, you get this moment of. 23:04 wow, someone who works in this industry at Ulta has this positive emotion towards you and recognizes that you shouldn't just be a cashier. 23:13 You could actually be on the floor doing makeup. I hope she sees this. What's her name? Do you remember? Her name was Lindsay, yeah. 23:19 Oh, you remember her name? I hope she sees this. Do you remember what she looks like? Oh, yeah. 23:22 Short haircut, glasses, beautiful. Lindsay, big shout out. That's awesome. Have you ever met her again? 23:30 I saw her a few years later. She was a manager at a different store. Yeah, I saw her. 23:33 Okay, but not since all of this. 23:35 No, no, but that would be cool. That would be cool. I would be open to that. Imagine we had Lindsay in the back right now. I was like, guys, bring Lindsay up. Oh, man, we should have done that. 23:43 Oh, that's awesome. I really hope she does see this because I can see what impact she's had on you. 23:47 Yeah, she has had a big impact on me. 23:48 It's incredible, isn't it? People like that who didn't realize. 23:52 They didn't even know what they were doing for you. They were just doing it. I think about those people sometimes, the people that opened doors or gave someone an opportunity. They're not the ones who are well-known or whatever it may be, but everyone has someone like that in their life or a few people like that in their life. 24:09 Yeah, you never know who's walking through the door. 24:11 Yeah. That's pretty remarkable. So wait, you get this job at Alter. 24:16 And actually, I want to track back a little bit to the point you talked about giving up. 24:20 Yeah. 24:20 Because I find that really fascinating because up until now, I'm hearing your confidence. I'm hearing you believe in yourself. You're like posting a blog at 14. You've got YouTube. Just to be really clear, that is early days to do that. Now people are doing it because you can see where it goes. You're doing it at a time when it's still pretty new and fresh. So those are not small things. Talk to me about what had to happen for you to get to a point to say, I might have to give up on this dream. I don't think it's happening. 24:47 When I went to a business college and as I was going through school and seeing just people getting these opportunities and finance and accounting and all of these big jobs that are going to take them like really far and And I was getting a communication degree and I was thinking about working in TV or radio or something like that. And then I interned in radio and I liked it. I liked it a lot, but there was something still missing. 25:17 It just nothing ever fit. And I felt really confused when I was a senior in college. 25:23 And like I said, I gave up. I went to a college that was, again, pretty conservative. No one's wearing makeup. There was actually a girl. Her name is Dana. Dana Rose. She's a beauty influencer now, fun fact, and we're friends. But she was a year above me at the school and she was an athlete at the school and she would walk around campus with a full beat to go to practice. And she had this gorgeous makeup and I always admired her. And I wondered what she was going to do with her life because she was going to a business college. 25:55 And then I saw on Instagram that she began a lash business. 25:59 And I thought, wow, she went to college to get this degree, and now she wants to have a lash business. So clearly there's some correlation between business and beauty. Clearly there is something here. So I decided to create an Instagram account, and I began posting just makeup stuff. Just makeup hauls, makeup pictures of my eyeshadow. Because I did really cool eyeshadow. 26:25 And Ardell Lashes is a company. It's a lash company. They reposted one of my pictures. And just that simple repost. Okay, they liked the makeup enough to repost it. 26:39 That's kind of cool. 26:41 And then I began tagging brands, tagging brands in photos and doing more like product stuff and showing people what products I use. And then I noticed brands were paying attention. So if I show a CoverGirl foundation, CoverGirl may like the photo. And I'm thinking, wow, this is really, really interesting. If I really put in the work here, maybe this could be my future. Like I had this hint of a maybe. 27:07 So that's when I kind of said, all right, I'm going to try this again. 27:11 Well, yeah, I'm sure you sometimes look back and go, gosh, if I didn't pull through. 27:16 Oh, my gosh. You must have those sliding doors moments. I think about that all the time because I did have a job offer after college, and it was going to be to work in an HR department at a bank. 27:29 Imagine that. Imagine me working in the HR department at a bank. You'd be amazing at it, I imagine. You'd be really good at it. I would be great at it, but... 27:36 I think I would have been really miserable in the job, honestly. Just from a creativity perspective. When you're someone who's really creative, if you're not constantly activating that, it's tough. 27:49 Yeah. I can relate to that. I spent... two years in the corporate world after living as a monk, which I thought was my path, and then spent two years working a corporate job, which, by the way, I enjoyed and it was good. And I learned a lot from it about business that's been very, very useful. Yeah. 28:07 But I felt the exact same way. I was like, oh, I thought my life was about helping people. I thought it was about being creative. I thought it was about teaching people something and guiding them and helping them improve their life. And all of a sudden I'm not doing any of that. And I got that real awakening by spending two, you are smarter than me. You figured it out before, you know, spending those two years in there, which is amazing. But you have this moment, you get their job at Ulta. The first day is the best day. 28:33 But then 2020 comes along, COVID happens. 28:36 And I experienced the worst day. 28:38 And you experienced your worst day. Talk to me about your best day at Ulta to your worst day at Ulta. 28:44 That's a day I feel like no one will forget when COVID hit its peak and the country just simultaneously shut down. For me, at the time I was working at Ulta, I was also getting my master's degree. And I was preparing and being onboarded for that HR position. So I'm doing these three things at once. And I felt really good. I felt confident. Like, okay, my future, I feel like I got this. 29:10 Then COVID happens. Ulta Beauty shuts down across the country. I lose my HR position because they decided to shut down the program because they were unsure about COVID. And then also my master's program shut down entirely. 29:28 It didn't even go remote. It just shut down. 29:31 So I, in one day, lost everything. And I was terrified. 29:37 I was absolutely terrified. 29:40 It was a horrible day because I'll never forget it because my mom came in my room and said, hey, Michaela, your student loans just got delivered to you. So I'm looking at these student loans that I owe, which is if anyone has student loans, you know how much those are. 29:56 At the same time, I just lost my job at Ulta temporarily. COVID is happening. School shut down. I am just panic attack, panic attack. And I'm just crying to my mom, crying that I don't know what I'm going to do now. 30:11 It was very, very scary. 30:13 But I'm also at the time 21. 30:17 So I think a lot of us at 21 are a little bit scared about the future. Well, I think everyone's scared about the future, but I think COVID added a whole new layer. Oh, yeah. 30:25 For everyone who's graduating at that time or looking for work. 30:27 I didn't even have a graduation. Yeah. Yeah. 30:30 Yeah, or you're graduating on Zoom for some people, or you don't know if you're going to get a job, but a lot of people didn't get jobs, programs got canceled. Like, I feel like it was such a defining moment for people in a different way if you were- It could either make or break you. You know what I find fascinating, Michaela, is that you're talking about one of the worst days in your life, but you cried in this interview when someone believed in you. Mm-hmm. 30:52 And that tells me a lot about you. 30:55 You got teary and emotional at the fact that someone believed in you, which just shows how grateful you are and how much you're crying at a good thing. 31:03 Oh, yeah. I love crying at good things. 31:06 Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but that tells me a lot about you. That's rare. Most of us, we cry when we go through bad things or we remember bad moments or bad memories. And that's normal as well. There's nothing wrong with that. 31:17 Well, how could I cry at the most defining day of my life? I mean... I believe in timing. I believe timing is everything. I do believe things happen for a reason, personally. And I felt that that day was meant to happen to me. It was meant to be a massive wake-up call. Wake up, Michaela. 31:34 And get it together. Because you got this. 31:37 That's so powerful. I love that because I feel like there's so many people right now who might be going through a difficult moment or a difficult time like that. And knowing that being let go from your job or rejected from the place you want to work at or something not working out could actually be the beginning. You said it could make or break you. How long after that did you join TikTok? The next day? 31:58 Wow. A lot of people don't know the full story about the TikTok. Tell me. So my mom was a school counselor. 32:07 She's retired now. And she struggled a lot in COVID because all schools went remote. And like I said, my parents are older, so my mom knows nothing about technology. And she came to me knowing I knew about videos and asked me if I could figure out a way for her to teach her students virtually. 32:29 And I said, okay, well, there's this app right now. And at that time, that app was blowing up. TikTok was blowing up during COVID because everyone's on their phone looking for something to distract themselves. I didn't even have TikTok. I downloaded it so I could help my mom to make videos for her students. 32:48 So I downloaded the app and I created for a few weeks with my mom. I was making lessons on TikTok of my mom. I was filming it for her, filming it and editing it because I love video editing. I love filming and video editing. So I was so down to help her. I grew up with chickens. So like we did this whole lesson about counting or whatever with eggs with the chickens. Like how many eggs do we have today? Like things like that. One thing I noticed when I was posting these videos, I'm posting these videos, I have no followers, by the way, none, zero. 33:23 Yet these videos were getting thousands of views. 33:26 And I thought to myself, wow, this app has a really interesting algorithm. 33:31 I noticed the algorithm right away. You could have no followers and you could have a video blow up and that could be a turning point. 33:39 So I thought to myself, all right, I don't have a job anymore. I'm no longer in school. What could I do with this? And I knew nothing about TikTok. 33:49 So I said, all right, let me do a transition video, which I saw some people doing on the timeline. They were doing these makeup transitions, and I thought, I can do makeup. I can probably figure out how to do a transition video. Now, if you go and watch the transition video, it's horrible. 34:04 It's really, really bad. 34:07 But I did it. 34:09 And at the time, I was struggling really bad with acne. For some reason, I got adult acne. So by the time I turned 20, I all of a sudden got this severe cystic acne. 34:20 So when I posted the transition video, I showed my acne. And then I showed this after where I had this flawless makeup on. And I think immediately that's what caught people's attention. Two things about that. One, that I was a person willing to show my skin. I was willing to show the world my acne. 34:41 And also I wrote, it's so funny, I wrote a blog article about how that was the first time I showed the world my acne. Because I had never shown anyone my acne. Like not even people I knew knew I had acne. I would wear makeup to really disguise it. I was pretty good at makeup to the point where no one would know I had acne because I could cover the texture of it and smooth the skin. So when I posted the transition video, people saw that I literally made this acne disappear. 35:09 I think people got really curious about it. And then I decided, okay, I'm reading the comments on this video and the video is blowing up. 35:18 even though I have no followers and no one knows who I am. I had no, I had a, my Instagram account probably had 800 followers or something like that. which is nothing. I was not trying to be an influencer at the time. So to have a video skyrocket like that, I thought was really interesting. And I said, okay, I need to do a video maybe showing people technique because I love education and technique. So I did another video and this one I'm talking, which scary, but I was talking and I showed people how to do that acne trick where I cover acne really well. 35:51 That video, the minute I posted it, blew up like I've never seen anything blow up in my life. 35:59 It was crazy. 36:01 15 million views within a day. 36:07 Imagine that for me. 36:09 Imagine that for me after all those years trying to be a beauty influencer. I'm sure you can only imagine how that would feel. 36:18 It was crazy. 36:19 What made you want to share your real acne on that day? Like you'd never shared it with people you knew. You never shared it online. What was different? Why did you feel that was so important? 36:29 Well, I knew I wanted to be a beauty influencer, and I knew what my skin looked like. And I knew that if I was going to have a public platform, I needed to show my face. Especially if you're going to do something in beauty, you need to be open to having that bare skin. 36:46 And I'm a big fan of exposure therapy. I do it all the time. And for me, that was exposure therapy. I also didn't think that a lot of people would see the video. I figured, you know, a couple thousand. 37:00 So that was exposure therapy to the max. So once everybody saw my acne, it wasn't a problem for me. 37:06 I was able to show it, no problem. 37:08 Yeah, I can imagine it helped a lot of people too who were struggling with the same thing. And that's why it had such a connection with people. 37:14 In that video, I showed a technique and I talked about products and the products I showed sold out for months. So people became obsessed with the technique too. 37:22 Wow. Did anyone in your private life struggle with that success or react differently to that success at the time? 37:30 Okay, so this is one of my favorite stories. Okay. 37:34 So remember how I said my parents were maybe a little skeptical? 37:39 When I had that video blow up, I like I said, I come from two really hardworking parents who ingrained in me this like you're going to do big things mindset because I watch them do big things. 37:55 So when the video went viral, and I knew at least as much as the other beauty YouTubers how successful you can be. Watching, you know, Jeffree Star buying this $25 million mansion and like things like that, I would see that. So I knew what beauty influencers were capable of, and I knew that that was a life that I aspired to have. Who wouldn't aspire to be successful in what they're passionate about? Mm-hmm. 38:23 So when that video went viral, I literally ran downstairs. My parents were watching TV on the couch. And I sat down, put the phone in my dad's face. And this video is like he's watching the views. I'm like refreshing, showing him the views going up. And I said, Dad, I just want to let you know that your daughter is going to be a millionaire. I literally said that to him. 38:44 Not knowing if that was going to be true. Yeah. But I'm big on manifesting. And I think if you put something out there and you're loud about it, you can make it happen. So I literally said that to him. He was like, you're full of shit. 38:59 He was like, no, no, no, no. How is that even possible? How can you make money doing Internet videos? 39:04 And I said, I'm going to show you. Just wait. 39:06 Yeah. 39:08 When did he start to believe you? So once that moment happened, I became a machine because I believe in seizing the moment. So if you, it's easy to have a viral moment. The viral moment happens, boom, that's it. What do you do next? That's the question. How do you build something out of this? And I took that very seriously because thankfully I do have that business mindset too. So, and that's what a lot of people lack, right? They have the ability to create the content, but they don't know how to make it a business. I knew how to make it a business. 39:39 So when that video went viral, I said, OK, I've put myself out there. Now I need to grind. So I ended up posting every single day a minimum of three videos a day. And each video, I would do something different to see what my audience wanted to see. So whether it's a makeup tutorial, a lifestyle video, a haul, a vlog, I began doing all kinds of different things to see what caught the attention of people. 40:05 What I discovered was it wasn't the content they wanted to see. It was me. 40:11 They didn't care what the topic of the video was. They just liked my personality. That's amazing. They liked who I was. 40:19 The reason I appreciate that is because, like I said, growing up watching all these beauty YouTubers... The reason I did that was because it was people I felt I could relate to. It was people I had something in common with. I really struggled to find people that I had something in common with. So watching these beauty influencers made me feel a lot less alone. 40:41 And I just loved that relatability. So when I went viral and I saw people in my comment section saying, wow, like I'm following you. I love this. I love your videos. I thought, wow, I wonder if they feel the same way. I wonder if the people at home watching this think I want to watch your videos every day because I relate. I feel something. I feel a connection to her, even though I don't know her. And people say that to me all the time when they come up to me. I don't know you, but I feel like I connect to you. And that's something I really appreciated because I know exactly how that feels. 41:13 It is such an incredible feeling. I've had that too, where people come up to me and be like, I feel like I know you. Yes. Because I listen to you. And I feel like it must have been a pretty remarkable feeling that people were just gravitating towards you, as in your personality, your energy, the way you came across. And people got fixated. And of course, when you have that and you have the level of scale of success you've had, it starts to also be like, you know, you've said in your own words, it's like, oh, you become somewhat of a controversial figure. Everything you say, people get addicted to and they latch onto it. 41:45 And then it becomes a talking point. Like that's pretty fascinating in and of itself that anything you say, becomes something other people talk about. Like the Kardashians have that effect where like anything Kim says, like everyone is discussing what people feel about it. And like when you say something, a lot of people on the internet, there's like pages and pages and pages of discussion of everyone talking about you. Like talk to me about, How that feels and why do you think you specifically as a personality had all of this reaction that came from you? 42:15 Well, I'll never forget the first day I was cancelled. Cancelled. 42:19 A minor cancellation. It was over filter accusations, which I will say it here straight out. I don't use filters, but I get accused of it a lot. 42:28 So... 42:30 Someone made a video saying I use filters. And this video blew up. And, you know, I had not experienced this level of hate before. 42:39 And I remember I had just gotten a manager. I had signed with her like the week before. 42:45 And I called her just crying and crying and crying. And I remember... 42:50 And like, I don't know if you experienced this, but sometimes when I become so overwhelmed and so anxious, I want to throw up. So I felt like I was going to throw up. I'm shaking. I'm crying. And it was really difficult. 43:04 And then I went through other cancellations over time, and I learned that it's kind of just the role. It comes with it. It comes with growth. And if anything, I've kind of learned to appreciate it, which is really strange to say, but you have to appreciate it. And my manager said, Michaela, you can't become numb. 43:27 This is going to make you numb. Like, I see that you're shutting yourself off from all of this hate. 43:33 But I see you becoming numb, and I didn't like that either. So you kind of have to become confident in yourself. Like I said, if you're really confident in yourself, when I'm seeing all these hate videos, I know who I am. I know my character. I know that what I see online isn't true. So that's why it doesn't affect me like it used to. Because at a certain point, there's nothing you can do about it. There's nothing you can do about it. 43:57 Yeah, it comes with the territory of being as, I've been saying to a lot of people recently when we're talking about this experience of, I feel the closer you get to the top 1% in your industry, the more likely is that 50% of people have an opinion about you. And you see that across the board, like the biggest athletes in the world, there's a 50-50 divide on how people feel about them. Even the biggest musicians in the world, there's a 50-50 divide on do you love or hate them? It's like Marmite, right? Like that love or hate relationships people have. 44:28 So the closer you get to the top 1%, the more likely you have a 50% love or hate relationship, which is fascinating to think about. 44:34 It's also interesting because it is so parasocial, right? And I've had experiences actually where the people who have publicly hated on me, I meet them in person and they change their mind. They change their mind. 44:51 One girl came up to me and said, hey, you blocked me because I made a hate video about you. 44:56 And she said straight up to my face, I was wrong and I'm sorry and I want you to unblock me. 45:02 I said, okay, I appreciate that you're acknowledging that maybe what you saw and read wasn't true and I'll unblock you. So it's really interesting how a lot of times there's not as much weight to what's being said. 45:16 It's fascinating to me though, the level of like scrutiny that people have. Like I think there was a video in 2023 with L'Oreal and it was all about whether with your lashes. And I'm like, there was such a debate about this. And I'm like, when I first saw that and I read about it, I was like, I can't believe this elicits such a massive reaction. 45:35 It was in every magazine. Everyone was talking about it. It was an explosive conversation. Yeah. 45:39 Yeah. Talk to me about that moment. 45:41 Truthfully, that moment didn't affect me at all because I was canceled worse a few months prior for my phrase I'm known for saying, try being an influencer for a day. 45:54 Which was completely taken out of context. Someone basically commented, try getting a nine to five. And I made a response video saying, I worked until 519 today. And then I talked about all the things that come with being an influencer. And I said, try being an influencer for a day. Now, I knew in that moment that what I said was wrong, and I actually deleted that video within seconds of posting it. 46:16 Oh, wow. 46:16 But someone saved it right away, and it didn't blow up until years later. I actually made that video where I said try being an influencer for a day the first year of me being an influencer. It was not anywhere any recent. It was something I said early, early on when I was trying to figure out how to be an influencer. Yeah. Do I agree with this statement anymore? No. 46:40 I don't think the L'Oreal situation affected me as much because the tribe being an influencer situation hit me heavier. So when the L'Oreal one happened, I was already prepared for that moment. It like prepped me for it. 46:58 And I kind of just kept it moving. 46:59 I appreciate what you're saying about remembering who you are at these moments. 47:04 Because that's hard as well. Yeah. Because you seem like a genuine, sensitive human being. Very sensitive. Yeah. And it's like... When you read things, and I do this too, like when I read things about me that are negative, I can start to believe them about myself as well because I can be sensitive and vulnerable and open up to that and start to look for those things within myself and be like, oh, mate, like am I, you know, and you can get really, you can be really broken open in that way. Talk to me about what you've had to do, but your manager's advice was great. 47:38 What else have you had to do to remember who you are? And hold on to who you are and why you do this. 47:43 Well, one thing I used to do was at night in bed, I would scroll and I'm reading all of the hate comments. I'm seeing all of the hateful videos and I would go to bed really upset every night. And then I would wake up feeling upset and it would kind of rule my days. 48:03 So one thing I began doing is at night, the minute I walk in my bedroom, the phone is away. 48:08 That has made a huge difference for me. And I'm present at night. I'm not scrolling. I don't doom scroll at night. 48:16 I also have done a lot of like minor things to protect myself online. Like fun fact, if you block, you can block words on TikTok. So I blocked my name and that way videos about me don't come up. I don't even see them because I blocked my own name. 48:34 But I did it to protect myself. Obviously, I'm probably missing out on maybe nice videos about me, but I just really had to do that because there was a time where it was getting to me really, really bad. But I'm really happy to say that now I can handle it really, really well. I'm human. So sometimes something will happen and it'll really hurt. But for the most part, I'm really strong with it and I'm really proud of that. I'm proud that I didn't have to numb myself to it because a lot of times that's what we do. 49:07 I'm actually really more so strong about it versus numb. 49:12 What was the hardest, worst moment of it for you internally? I mean, not even what happened, but for you and your experience of it. 49:19 I mean, because I grew at an exponentially fast pace, I'm talking I had 15 million followers in two, three years. That's abnormal. That is an abnormal growth pace for a creator. 49:35 So with that, the scale of hate was maybe a lot higher than an influencer would be used to in the very beginning of so that very beginning those first two three years of me being an influencer were honestly really devastating from a mental health perspective i struggled really really bad i had some really dark moments that i wasn't sure there were many times i wanted to even quit being an influencer thinking can i do this do i want to do this Because being an influencer is a choice. 50:13 And this is probably the biggest thing I've learned. This job is a choice. You're choosing to put yourself out there. Everything you do in your career, you're choosing to do. 50:24 Do I want to choose to receive these hateful comments every single day to put myself through this? Why am I choosing this? 50:35 And in that moment, I thought, I'm choosing it because of everything else. 50:40 It's not about this. It's about everything else. 50:44 So those three years where I really struggled, I thought, okay, this is challenging. 50:49 But everything else that I'm choosing this for... 50:53 the connections, the love of creating, beauty, makeup, the impact I can have on people's lives, the experiences I get to have, the growth, the success, the joy that I get doing it. A lot of people say that there's influencer fatigue. I don't experience that. 51:13 I have yet to experience it. Maybe I will eventually. But I have not experienced influencer fatigue yet where you wake up and you don't want to do it. You wake up and you say, oh, I got to film videos. I have not experienced that. I wake up every single day so beyond excited to film. I never run out of ideas. I love what I do. I get so much joy and creative outlet from it. And I'm really grateful for that. But that's definitely what drove me to keep going. 51:42 How have you maintained that? How have you held on to that for all the creators that are watching that I think you just spoke to and being open about the mental health toll that being a creator can take, the feedback can take. How have you held on to that? And I believe you because even today, before we were in recording, you were telling me how excited you were about the week and what's been going on. So I believe you. But how did you hold on to that when people can become jaded, tired, burnt out for all the natural reasons? 52:10 I think influencer fatigue comes from when you're creating from a place that lacks authenticity. 52:18 If you're creating content that you don't feel excited about, that's when the fatigue happens. If you're coming up with videos just to come up with them because you feel you have to post, you have to create, that's when the fatigue happens. So if there is ever a moment where you begin to feel fatigued, Take a step back. That doesn't mean you need to press the foot on the gas. It means you need to press the brake. And you need to back up and you need to think, okay, I'm losing myself a little bit here. 52:49 I'm a little fatigued. 52:51 And what can I do differently? 52:53 And even I've had those moments. I've switched things up, absolutely. I've switched up my creative space to revive my creative juices. I've switched up video ideas to make sure that I'm still feeling creative and not being repetitive. I've experienced different styles of videos, different vlogging techniques, different everything. Just switch everything up. Change things. But don't change who you are in the process. 53:16 This episode is brought to you by State Farm. We spend so much energy becoming the best version of ourselves, building better habits, showing up more fully, embracing mindfulness. But sometimes the most purposeful thing you can do is just handle the thing you've been putting off. If getting your insurance sorted has been living on that list, State Farm is there to help you choose the coverage that's right for you. Go online at statefarm.com or use the easily accessible app to get help from one of their over 19,000 local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. 53:49 Talking about not changing who you are, one of the biggest talking points of your content has always been your accent. Like, why do you think that is? And what's your take on? 53:58 Well, because people watching this right now are saying, where is it? 54:04 So, yeah, the accent. So when I first began my page, the first video I posted talking had no accent. 54:13 And that's the one that changed my life. And then a few videos later, all of a sudden there was an accent. And people thought, what the hell? 54:21 So the premise behind that is I do have an accent. 54:26 And it can actually be very strong, as strong as you see in my videos. But... I also went to school for communication, radio. 54:34 I code switch like you wouldn't believe. 54:36 So I'm talking to you like this right now because I just met you. 54:41 I just met you and I'm not in that comfortable place with you yet where I'm going to throw out my heavy, strong Boston accent. I want to hear it. 54:50 No, no, no, no. Bring it out. 54:52 That you maybe wouldn't even understand. 54:54 Right. 54:54 A lot of people don't understand it. They're like, what is she saying? But when I'm around the comfort of my friends, my family, like the people I'm really close with see every day, that's when it comes out. And remember, I film my videos by myself, so I'm just talking to myself. So that's when my accent, like, you'll hear it. And then I've told my audience this many times. For example, I don't know if you know my meme with the Kim Kardashian, but that was me just being a goofball. So sometimes because I have an accent and because people make fun of the accent, I take it upon myself to exaggerate it, make it really annoying, just throw people off with it because that's what I'm an entertainer at the end of the day. 55:36 So I'm just trying to entertain you. And to me, entertainment is someone watching the video because they love it or because they're so annoyed that they can't look away. 55:48 Yeah, it's what you said about being an entertainer, that there's a part of it that is performance, that is playing up to the character that has that. I find myself always trying to do the opposite with mine, where I feel like people who watch me for 30 seconds or two minutes, they just feel like I'm just... always serene or like always calm. And so I try and like put out like personality, funny, silly videos with my wife or with my team or whatever, because I'm like, guys, like I'm not serious all the time. Like I can also laugh and have a good time. 56:20 So sometimes mine's the opposite where like, I don't have to play up to a persona. I'm trying to like poke holes in my own persona because I'm like, guys, I'm not always calm and meditating. And you know, I know I have a good time as well. 56:31 It's weird because it's not like this right now, but I'm a really loud person. I'm very talkative. I don't shut up. 56:37 I know. Today you're like super zen. Right. 56:39 Because look at the space we're in. It depends on the environment I'm in. I've always been very adaptable. I adapt to the environment I am in. So right now it's so serene and calm. So I'm just... 56:50 In that moment, you know. 56:51 What I'm hearing from you, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that that's just you in different spaces. Yeah. It's not like one is more you or less you. It's just you're adaptable. We're all different and different around different people. And naturally with our families and friends. 57:04 Yeah. 57:05 I think when you have such a public life, you want to have certain things that are just private. 57:11 Yeah. Yeah. Like, my personality is so, I don't know, it's personal. It's a personal thing that I really enjoy saving for my family and my friends and things like that. Obviously, I put it online, too. Yeah. When I'm in real life, you know what I mean? 57:29 You know, you were in such a public relationship and marriage, and that was a big part of your content and what you were sharing. Take me back to the moment that you met, because that was when you were on this meteoric rise. Oh, yeah. Talk to me about meeting your ex-husband at that time. 57:47 Yeah. 57:48 So Cody and I met right when I began my career. Yeah. So and we met at really massive turning points in our lives. And I think that's why we connected so fast. Cody and I connected from the moment we met. So I was blowing up in my career. I had just moved out of my parents' house into my first apartment. So I'm living alone. I'm navigating life. I'm navigating this influencer world, trying to turn it into a job. And at the same time, because I grew so fast and because of COVID and because of me navigating this whole new world that I'm in, I felt that I was really longing for companionship, someone to go through it with, someone to share it with. 58:32 Because it's amazing. I mean, everything, the growth, the experiences, it was something I wanted to share. Yeah. 58:41 And I didn't want to do it alone, transparently. And Cody at the time had just moved across the country to go to rehab. So Cody is an addict and he went to rehab in Massachusetts. And I met him on Tinder, which a lot of people meet that way nowadays. But when I met him, he was just coming out of rehab and And he moved into a sober house with other sober individuals. And he was, too, seeking companionship, longing for someone to go through this new sobriety journey with. 59:17 You know, he's freshly sober, he's confident about life, he's feeling good, and he wants to share it with someone. So we were both really in this same exact position of going through a massive change and wanting to share it with someone. So when we met and he told me a story about sobriety and moving across the country, I was honestly very inspired. And it reminded me of me in the sense of taking a massive risk and changing your life and doing something with your life. So we just connected like crazy right away because of our stories. 59:52 And so because of that, our relationship just exploded from the get-go. 59:56 Yeah. 59:57 It's amazing, isn't it? How like that similar phase in life, similar experience, even though totally different, totally different experiences, but similar spirit of how you're trying to live and you kind of become close to someone. What did it feel like though? Because I imagine a sobriety journey, living in a sober house feels like more insular, private, more inward focused. And then you're obviously like blowing up. You're becoming the most successful person in your field in a matter of months and continuing on that success. 60:31 Was it hard managing that public and private life or did it just feel really natural at the first time? 60:36 It was not natural at all. So Cody really, really struggled with the public life. When I met him, I had just began my career. So I hadn't really reached that peak of publicity and public lifestyle and being recognized out in public. And it was also COVID, so no one was really going anywhere. So I don't think he or I understood the scale of what was going to be. 61:05 But because I grew so fast, both of us were kind of slapped in the face with this new reality. 61:13 And Cody really struggled with it because Cody's from a really, really small town in Nevada, and he's not familiar with the world of influencers. And he was kind of... Along for the ride. He was growing with me and helping me with my videos and being in my videos. And he was very, very supportive and open to it. But I think he very quickly realized that it was a lot more challenging than he thought. 61:41 And the biggest reason for that is because he had to watch me, the person he cared about the most and loved, go through immense pain and suffering essentially because of how I was treated online. 61:55 So there were times where he didn't know what to do. He felt so helpless, so, so helpless that he couldn't get me through this completely. Because it got really dark. I was really, really depressed and really sad all the time. And because of that, for the first one, yeah, three years as I was navigating this new world, I became very detached. And I became very passive. And I wasn't being a good partner to him. 62:26 Because I was so, one, taken back by the online hate. 62:32 And two, trying to figure out this new world I'm in as a, at that time, 23-year-old. 62:39 So I just, I couldn't figure out how to handle the career. 62:45 And he had to just watch because he couldn't do anything for me. He could be by my side and support me and try to help me through it. But he couldn't physically do anything. And I think for a lot of partners, that would be really, really hard. So he struggled a lot with that. 63:01 And so did I. Yeah. 63:03 I really appreciate your honesty on just A, how hard it was for you. Yeah. 63:07 And B, how much that impacts who you are in a relationship. 63:11 Yeah. 63:12 And how hard it can be for the other individual as well. 63:15 And what you just laid out is so real. Like I know there have been times when I'm going through something. Yeah. 63:21 and my wife who loves me and wants to help me and support me, it's like, sometimes I don't even know what to say because I'm just trying to deal with it all internally and trying to make sense of it and figure it out. And it's, and I can't, people will be like, well, you should help them help you. And I'm like, but I don't even know what I need right now. Like, I'm just trying to figure that out. Just as he was helping you both making videos, being in videos, also trying to support you with the Fallout Online, were you also trying to support him in his sobriety journey or were you trying to be helpful in that way? 63:50 Oh yeah, absolutely. I would go to the AA meetings with Cody because I too needed to learn about that. And honestly, Cody told me he was an addict from the jump, which I appreciated. 64:04 And a lot of people would maybe hesitate in that situation. Okay, you're an addict. I had never been with an addict. I knew nothing about that. I knew nothing about being with an addict. But... two people in my life who are very, very close to me, who have been married for 40 years. 64:23 One of them was an addict and got sober, and they've had a very happy marriage. 64:29 So I thought, I saw this, and I can do the same thing. 64:35 If I watched this long, happy marriage where they got through that, I can do it too. That's what I thought. 64:44 I had never experienced it, though, so I didn't really know what I was saying. But I really tried to be there for Cody as much as I could. I worked with him to go to AA, and he did a lot of speaking about sobriety as well, and he was really into his sobriety journey, so I definitely was supportive. 65:03 If you were now asked to write a guide on dating an influencer and dating an addict, what notes would you give people from your experience and your perspective? Oh, gosh. 65:15 Well, that's a very interesting combination. But like, for example, if someone's dating an influencer, what should they know? If you're dating an influencer, you should know that that person's in the public eye, so you're likely going to be in the public eye, too. And as much as you try to avoid it, sometimes that can be a challenge if your videos get taken of me out in public all the time. So, you know, Cody and I go out, someone could take a video of him, and boom, he's revealed. 65:40 You have to be really open to that. You have to be open to the times where your partner is struggling with the hate online and how they may react to that. You have to be open to the lifestyle. I was never home. I'm constantly traveling. Go, go, go, go, go. So that would be the influencer guide for sure. 65:56 And the addict when you've had that experience? 65:58 The addict guide, I would say, you have to be really open to listening. You have to understand that every addict's journey is different. There's every book you can read, but at the end of the day, every addict's journey to sobriety or staying sober is going to be completely different. So you have to just support your partner as much as you can. You have to realize that if, say, they relapse, you can't be the one to get them sober. They have to be the ones who want to get sober. 66:30 Thank you so much. So it's so useful when someone's had that experience. And when you're going through it for the first time, you kind of go in with blinders on and you don't know what that feels like. Like you said, you had this very close friend of yours, the couple, one of them was an addict and You obviously get to a point of getting engaged, getting married. Talk to me about that journey from dating to marriage and what was giving you hope or faith or what was working that led you to that? 66:57 The first year of Cody and I's relationship was really beautiful. It was very fast, but it was very emotional and full of love. And he actually bought the engagement ring three months into dating me. Three months into dating me. This man was so sure that he wanted to marry me. He did it all on his own. 67:17 And he couldn't keep a secret. He could not keep a secret. He would just he literally picked up the ring and said, I got this ring so I can propose to you later on. 67:29 Wow. 67:29 I was like, well, that's interesting. And he's like this. He kind of said, this is how sure I am that I want to marry you. He showed me the ring. He said, I'm not giving you this right now, but I just want you to know this will be on your finger. 67:40 OK, that's three months into dating. How did that feel when that happened? 67:43 I think there was maybe a little bit of love bombing involved for sure. But like... 67:50 It was on both sides. 68:06 And knowing that he could have a future ahead of him where he's sober. And I think, like, that next step in his head for him was, okay, now I get married. Then I have kids. And I'm going to live this beautiful, happy life. That's kind of what his mindset was. So he was just really excited. But I thought the same way. You know, my parents have been married for forever. And, you know, I watched a happy marriage all my life. So, like, I thought the same thing. Okay, I graduated college. I have the job. What's next? You meet a partner. You get married. That's just what... 68:34 We both thought. So seven months went by and simultaneously Cody relapsed and he was planning to propose. So both of these were happening at the same time. 68:50 And that became really, really difficult. 68:53 So He relapsed because of the pressure of life, right? That can be the case a lot of times. He felt so overwhelmed with my career, with his career, with the idea of proposing can be overwhelming to a lot of people. And I think there was just so much going through his head that he couldn't take it. 69:15 So he ended up relapsing really early into the relationship. 69:20 And I stayed because I knew I could be that partner that helped him through it. 69:26 And I did. I helped him, you know, get help. And he got a sponsor and he started going to AA again. And I said, don't lose yourself. Don't lose yourself. You've got this. Because sobriety is very, it's not a straight line. Relapses are very common and normal as you're going through a sobriety journey, especially when you're just getting sober. So I knew that was going to be the case, and I was very open to that. 69:53 So we got him sober again and got him back on track. 69:57 And then, you know, things were fine. Things were good. And we got to the point of the wedding. And we had a beautiful, beautiful wedding. 70:07 And then shortly after getting married, he relapsed again. 70:13 And this one was more challenging because he had relapsed on alcohol. 70:19 And the first time around was drugs, and this time around was alcohol. And this was one I was really not familiar with. Because, you know, there's different reactions to both of those. 70:30 And it was a devastating day when he told me that he had relapsed. I was leaving to go to Spain already. And I was sitting in my office, and I was jamming out to music. My friend Sidney was about to show up because she was going with me. 70:47 And he opens my office door, and he's just devastatedly crying. 70:54 And I knew right in that moment. I said, oh, no. 70:59 And then he told me, he said, Michaela, I have been drinking alcohol for the last few months. 71:06 And I said, months? 71:10 Months? 71:13 And I had no idea. 71:16 And that made me question everything. I said, oh, my gosh. He hasn't been sober for this amount of time, and I didn't even know because he hid it so well. And this is, you know, as I'm going through this relationship with him, I'm learning about addicts. I'm learning everything about addicts. 71:34 So I said, oh, my gosh, okay. 71:36 I'm going to cancel my trip to Spain. Like, let's get you help. So he had a friend come, and he said, you're not canceling your trip to Spain. He said, you're not stopping your life for mine. And I said, Cody, I will if that's what we need to do. And he said, no, don't. 71:54 So I ended up going to Spain. 71:57 And it was a really hard trip for me because I'm knowing in the back of my mind that Cody is struggling with alcohol and... 72:05 When you're with an addict and you love them so much, you care about them so much, you're so terrified about what's happening when you're not around them. Because any moment, they could overdose. They could do something that hurts themselves. You just don't know. So as I'm in Spain, I'm spiraling. I'm freaking out. I don't know if he's okay. I don't know what's going on. 72:31 And then I get home from Spain and And, you know, now is the time to try to get him help. So we ended up going to get him help again. 72:44 And this is what it's like being with an addict. They stay sober and then something maybe happens that causes them to relapse. Then they'll get sober for a little bit. It's just so, like, unpredictable. Very unpredictable. Yeah. But as the years went on, unfortunately, Cody's addiction just continued to progress. 73:07 And my career also continued to progress. 73:12 So Cody and I's marriage became very dark because we were balancing so much. 73:23 We're balancing his sobriety and his addiction. We're balancing my career, where I'm only growing at this point. 73:30 and it became very, very challenging, our marriage, to balance the two. 73:36 Because I wanted to be there for Cody, and I wanted to help him as much as I could, but I knew that he was the one that had to want to be sober and to get sober, and he tried so many times throughout our relationship to get sober, to stay sober. He was giving it his all the whole time. 73:55 And I was giving my all to try to be the best partner for him. But my job is so demanding and so exhausting and busy. 74:06 And I think he needed a partner who was there more. 74:12 And I wasn't. 74:15 I really battled with this idea of 74:21 I couldn't save him. 74:23 I couldn't help him get sober. 74:25 But also, how much of myself do I reel in, do I dull down to help him? I really, really struggled with that. 74:38 Because, as I said in the beginning, I love what I do so much. 74:43 And the problem with that, though, is I was putting my career above Cody. 74:49 And that wasn't fair to Cody. That was not fair to Cody. 74:53 And that's definitely one of the reasons I decided to walk away. 75:02 But also just the balance. It was so much. So anyways, he got sober and time went by and then he relapsed again. 75:13 And this was one of the scariest nights of my life. 75:28 When you're with an addict, one of the things you worry about is, will you wake up and they'll be there in the bed? 75:36 And one night I woke up and he wasn't in the bed. 75:39 And I looked at the clock and I saw it was 1 a.m. and I thought, oh no. I was so scared about what I was going to see when I walked over to the next room. 75:56 So I got out of bed, and I very slowly just kind of listened at the door to see, maybe he's playing video games late at night or something like that. 76:07 And I opened the door, and Cody was just completely hunched over, unconscious. 76:21 And when you see something like that, The first thought is, are they dead? 76:30 So I immediately start crying, and I run up to him, and he's 6'2", and as you've seen, I'm very small, and he's heavy. 76:41 So I go, and I try to lift him up, and I was struggling. I was struggling to lift his body up, but finally I was able to lift him up, and I'm screaming. I'm like, Cody, Cody, please go. 76:59 And he wouldn't wake up. 77:02 And I didn't know what to do. This was my first time in this situation. And anyone who's been in this situation, the first time you're in it, it's a panic. And I wanted to do right by Cody. 77:14 And again, it's 1 a.m., so no one's awake. So I called his mom, and I said, Cody's not awake. What do I do? And she said, call 911. And she hung up on me. And I'm like, oh, my God, okay. 77:24 So I called 911. 77:26 And I said, hi, my husband, he's not waking up. He's not waking up. And I think he's overdosing. And, you know, they're trying to keep me calm because I was very emotional. 77:39 And he said on the phone, he said, you think he's overdosing? And I said, yes. 77:44 And then he said, what does he do? And I said, drugs and alcohol. 77:49 And he said, I need you to slap him as hard as you can in the face right now. 77:56 And I said, what? 77:59 You want me to slap my husband in the face? And he said, yes, I need you to slap him as hard as you can. 78:07 And in my mind, I'm like, oh my God, I can't do this. But in my mind, I'm like, I have to do this. So I go up to him and I'm not a very strong person either. So I like smack him as hard as I can and nothing happens. He just keeps falling over, you know, drool and foam coming out of his mouth and he's not waking up. 78:28 And I'm like, he's not waking up. And obviously they already had the ambulance on the way. 78:34 But I was so, so scared. 78:38 Anyways, the ambulance came, the police came, and he was fine. He ended up being okay. But that moment was so scary, and it just traumatizes you. 78:52 And going forward, all you think is, every night, you wake up in the middle of the night, and you're checking if they're there. 79:01 It's so scary. 79:06 So... 79:09 Time goes by, and Cody wasn't getting better. 79:15 And actually, he was able to stay sober, but then he would relapse, stay sober, relapse. 79:21 But what I saw was a mental health decline, a significant mental health decline. 79:28 And with addicts, when you're doing drugs and alcohol, that can shift your brain chemistry. It can change you as a person. 79:37 So the last year of Cody and I's marriage, I didn't know who Cody was anymore. 79:43 He was a completely different person. 79:48 Not who I married. 79:50 And that was really, really scary. 79:54 Cody means well, and he's an amazing person, and he's a really, really incredible guy. 79:59 But addiction can change people in a bad way. So I was just seeing a different person. 80:07 And I can't just say that that's because of solely his addiction. 80:12 Everything plays into that. 80:15 My job, the career, the pressure, me never being home. 80:20 I was not the partner that Cody needed. 80:24 And I've never said that before. 80:42 And it's embarrassing to say that. 80:48 But talking to people and you know, working through this, I've realized that Cody and I got married when I was 23, or sorry, we got married when I was 25. 81:03 We met when I was 23. 81:06 We were so young. 81:08 We were so young. 81:11 Neither Cody nor I knew who we were. 81:17 I was too early in my career and too young to understand what marriage is. 81:26 And Cody was too early in his sobriety journey and also too young at the time to be looking for a partner. 81:43 And that is essentially what led to me deciding we needed to get a divorce. 81:50 Yeah. 81:54 Okay, thank you so much for taking us through so many difficult moments in such a vulnerable way. And I think it takes a lot of courage to admit how you feel about how you showed up in the relationship. 82:09 Yeah. 82:09 I don't think it's embarrassing or think it's very honest and very genuine for you to say that that's how you felt and as you said you were both so young it's hard to know yeah what could have been if you were more established if he was more further on further along in his sobriety journey but I think taking us through that, you've really given us an in-depth viewpoint on something that you can't understand through a short reel on social media or TikTok or how we view people's relationships we really don't know. 82:54 what's going on past midnight on a dark, tough day. And you can't know, and it's hard to share these things. So I just want to thank you for being so open and honest, not only about the experience, but how you felt about yourself. And I think it takes a great deal of courage to just put your hand up and say you wish you wanted to do better. And at the same time, it's hard to put that much pressure on yourself because How could you know what to do? And you're going through all these experiences for the first time. 83:25 It's not like you're an expert or been trained in knowing how to do this. 83:29 I think it would be so... 83:31 unfair of me to come on here and blame Cody for everything when both Cody and I know that it was both of us. 83:41 It was just different things that led to it from both sides. And that typically is the case with divorce. 83:51 Have you both had that conversation with each other? 83:55 In brief spurts, yeah. Not as in-depth as this. 84:00 How do you think he'd feel about knowing that you feel like you didn't do your part, that you feel that way? 84:29 One thing that Cody always said to me during the marriage was, I wish she would just acknowledge that you put your career above me and that 84:47 I'm second to this massive empire you've built and how that makes me feel as a partner when your partner should be your priority. 85:03 And when you're an influencer, it's really easy to get wrapped up in all of this. 85:09 And unfortunately, my reality is I got really wrapped up in it and I failed as a partner to Cody. 85:24 But he failed me too. 85:26 We failed each other. 85:28 We failed each other. 85:32 And honestly, and Cody can agree, we're really grateful for our marriage because neither of us could have gone through that alone. 85:46 And we at least had each other. 85:47 And I think maybe it wasn't meant to be forever. And like I said, I believe in timing and I believe in everything happens for a reason. And I do believe that Cody was meant to be in my life for that period of time. And I think he would agree. 86:07 that we were meant to be in each other's lives for that period of time, even if it wasn't meant to be forever, because we learned the amount we went through together. It taught us everything we need to take us into this next chapter of our lives. 86:26 I mean, Michaela, I feel like as I'm sitting here listening to you, I'm just like, I think it's very human, your experience. Yeah. No, as in it's very like, it would be so unfair to put pressure on either of you to say that you should have known how to navigate your dream career and navigate dealing with a partner who's an addict and for him as well to deal with having a partner whose career is doing and then what he's going through. It feels like very human, natural, real challenges that we all face put on steroids through the various experiences that you both have had. 87:05 Yeah. I mean, it got to a point where my career for me became my distraction from the addiction. 87:15 And the traveling became kind of a safe haven for me to separate myself from the addiction. 87:24 Because addiction really consumes your life. And... 87:29 I'm grateful for my career in the sense that it was a really good distraction for that. But it's interesting how my career is the thing that played a massive role in the destruction of my marriage, but also what saved me from the destruction. 87:49 Yeah, and I assume it's also harder as a woman in business as well. Oh yeah. To go through that, to have that experience. Yeah. Because there's different pressures of gender roles and requirements and all this societal noise that comes with that, whether it's from your own background or the pressures of feelings and how other people are and so you know being a woman in business and like yourself and being a female entrepreneur that's you know achieved so much success I'm sure there's pressure from oh yeah what your role needs to be as well thank you for taking us through it so you know so gracefully and thoughtfully and reflectively it sounds like you've done so much oh yeah you know work i can hear it i'm like sitting with you going like oh wow michaela's sat with this for a long time yeah like that's how it's coming across to me sitting opposite you right now i'm like wow this is 88:45 Well, remember when I said I'm really self-aware? 88:46 Yeah. 88:47 That's something I appreciate about myself because I'm able to understand where I went wrong and where I can improve. 88:58 And I know that Cody's doing the same thing. 89:00 Yeah, and that's the hardest when there's two good people who love each other and care about each other, but life circumstances just ended up in a way that it didn't fit, and that's the hardest. Yeah. 89:11 Yeah, Cody and I were very, very different people. You know, he grew up in the Wild West and loves horses and going four-wheeling and things like that. And I'm a makeup girl. So, like, we were just so different. 89:29 And you were young, and that's totally fair. Yeah. I think people forget that as well. 89:33 Yeah. Yeah. 89:34 Yeah, but we were our biggest support system for five years. Five years. And there are five years I don't regret. I would not change. They've made me a very strong person. So I appreciate the five years I was with Cody. 89:50 I can't imagine how difficult it was that this is what you're actually going through. 89:54 And then at the same time, people online obviously attach themselves to a relationship that you know about through what you see. But of course, it's naturally very limited of what you experience. How did it feel to have to manage the actual stakes and the extent to which how much pressure this was as a relationship and then manage everything externally? 90:18 I mean, it was hell, honestly. 90:22 The last two years of my marriage, when Cody was really struggling with his addiction, things got really, really bad in the home. And there were times where I could barely get out of bed. 90:39 But I would do it because I knew it was the only way I would get out of my head about this. Because when you're with an addict, there's only so much you can do. There's only so much you can do. And I would ruminate, just ruminate. And you're constantly, you know, we had cameras, so... 90:57 I would constantly check the cameras to make sure Cody was okay. 91:00 Or I'm constantly checking his location to make sure he's where he is supposed to be and, you know, not somewhere in a ditch somewhere. Like, I'm just making sure that he's okay constantly. It became my entire existence, making sure Cody was okay. And it's so draining. It's so exhausting to be with an addict, especially when they're in an active addiction. 91:26 And at the same time, I'm balancing waking up every day and putting on this persona on camera. 91:34 And I can't even tell you how many videos I have done where I'm dealing with this, but I have to show up for my community. 91:43 It's just, I wish I could explain how strange that is, but You have to push through because people go through really hard things and still have to show up to work. 91:57 So I'm going to go through hard shit and I'm still going to show up to work just like everybody else. 92:01 Yeah, I think that's the part that people forget that people are going to work at a job every single day while there's things going on at home. 92:08 You got to go to work. 92:09 And what you're doing is your work. And what I'm doing is my work. This is still work. And you recognize that even if you love your work and you enjoy it and it's the best thing that ever happened to you, it's still part of work. And there are responsibilities and there are people that... 92:25 on your teams and you're paying people's bills and everyone's depending on you. And so you have a level of responsibility to your work that takes care of a lot more people that can't be dealt with. It's so hard being the CEO, the brand and the face and the person all tied into one. 92:45 And this is really the first time in history that that's actually happening. 92:49 If you really think about it. In the past, you didn't really know who the CEOs of the biggest companies were and you weren't buying that product because of the CEO. 92:59 And so it's also the first time we're all going through this together, trying to figure out how much authenticity to share and when can I share and when do I feel comfortable? I feel like we're all in this together trying to figure it out. 93:12 Yeah, and I was trying to figure it out while going through all that. 93:17 And I got to a point where my sparkle was so dulled. 93:24 When you get married, the intention is forever. 93:27 So I got married with the intention of forever. 93:31 And I really thought I could handle being with an addict. I really thought I could do it. 93:39 And I just have to give so much respect to the people who are with an addict, who are married to an addict, who have stuck by an addict, through sobriety, through not sobriety, through anything, that takes an immense amount of strength. 93:57 An immense amount of strength. I cannot even explain. Because we always think about what the addict is going through. But we forget about the partner is going through it too. 94:08 And it is really difficult. So... 94:13 I just have an immense amount of respect for the people who can do it. 94:18 And I really thought I could, but I realized I just couldn't. I just couldn't. And that is something I had to accept, which was tough for me because it makes you feel like a failure. 94:35 And I just could not accept that I was not meant to be that kind of person. 94:44 But I'm proud of myself that I made the choice. I had to be selfish in that moment. 94:48 How did you know that divorce was the right path? And then what was that process like as well? Because I think people underestimate. Oh, gosh. How long and. 94:57 Oh, my gosh. Yes. Arduous that process is. 95:00 So I decided I wanted to get a divorce in 2025, January 2025. And Cody also was on board with this. 95:12 We actually decided we wanted to get a divorce while Cody was in rehab. 95:16 I was sitting in a rehab with him. 95:20 This was actually December 2024. I am sitting with Cody in rehab on Christmas Day, and we're deciding that we're going to get a divorce. 95:35 And we were pretty serious about it. We got the lawyers, started doing the paperwork. 95:43 Cody got his own apartment. He moved out of the house. 95:48 And all at the same time, well, I'm about to launch a brand, by the way. 95:54 So this, and no one knew what I was going through. And I'm about to become a brand founder. So it was just a tornado for me. 96:03 So Cody moves out. We're deciding we're going to get a divorce. 96:09 And then a few months go by, and Cody's able to stay sober. 96:15 And we start going on, we start going to marriage counseling. 96:21 And it's working. 96:24 But then one day he showed up to marriage counseling drunk. 96:29 And I thought, okay, this is just going to be a cycle that I'm going to have to continue to either accept or choose to move forward from. 96:38 So he continued living on his own. 96:43 would go back and forth on his sobriety, and then we started going on dates. You know, we're married, but we're going on dates because we don't live together, but he would take me on dates because we wanted to try one more time. And I think a lot of people who go through divorce and marriage and decide to get a divorce maybe do this. I can't speak for everybody, but you do that one more try kind of thing in some cases. 97:11 So we decided to give it one more try to the point where Cody moved back in and we were working on it. 97:19 But it just didn't work. And we realized that really, really quickly. 97:25 And then another day I'll never forget is the day I asked for a divorce. 97:31 I was at home with Cody, and we got into this explosive fight, screaming at each other. 97:40 And this was the point we were at with our marriage, where it became so toxic, and it became really unhealthy. We were screaming at each other. We're not having good communication. Our communication became really bad. 97:57 And we're screaming in each other's faces about something. 98:01 And I'm thinking, in my head, I'm thinking, this is the last time I ever want to do this. 98:07 And for a woman especially, I think, it's really hard to walk away. 98:12 And I had a really hard time with that. But in that moment, the fight was so explosive, and I knew I never wanted to do it again. 98:21 At the end of the fight, I said, Cody, I want a divorce. 98:26 And it was so hard to say that out loud. 98:31 That I fell on the floor, started shaking, and devastatedly crying. I was devastated that I had to say that out loud. 98:45 And Cody was so confused. 98:48 Because I was in a panic attack. I was in a full-blown panic attack. 98:53 Because I was so scared. 98:55 Okay, I just asked for a divorce. 98:57 Now what? What do I have to do now? 99:02 Within a week, Cody moved out completely. 99:10 We both got lawyers and we began the process. And I remember that first meeting. I said, how long is this going to take? 99:19 And they said, oh, you'll probably be divorced next year. 99:23 And I said, next year. But mind you, this was in January. So I said, next year. And they were like, yeah, like this. 99:32 Well, we're going to ask for a court date, but that's probably going to be next year. And I could not believe that. I was like so shocked. But that's the reality for most divorces. And a year is not even that long. Some divorces go up to six years, especially if you have kids or you've been married for a really long time and there's a lot of assets involved. 99:53 I'm grateful that Cody and I were only married for two years, which made it a little easier. And we also don't have any kids. 100:02 So we were able to get divorced within eight months, which I'm really, really grateful for. 100:09 The eight months were really, really hard. 100:13 I have two really amazing friends, Sam and Sydney. My audience knows them well. 100:19 And I was on the phone with them every day for months, crying to them about it, shaking. They were scared for me at times because I lost all the color in my face. I just looked lifeless because I was so scared. 100:37 You just don't know what the future holds next. 100:40 And then finally, that month came with my court date, and oh man, I was so freaking excited. I mean, I finally get to be divorced. 100:52 I was excited for me, and I was excited for Cody. 100:56 Because Cody has his whole life ahead of him, and so do I. And that moment when you have that court date, and you've both agreed on everything, and you know you just get to show up and sign the papers and call it a day, and you're free, you're ready to begin your next chapter, it is like the best feeling in the world. Truly. 101:18 I mean... 101:20 Yeah. It's almost like, you know, it's over in your heart and mind. 101:23 Yeah. 101:24 And then there's all of this that has to follow it. And it only just got officialized in July 2026, right? Which is so fresh. Like, you know, it's been a couple of months. 101:37 What does it feel like now looking at it from this side? 101:41 It's interesting looking back at how scared I was for the months leading up to it and thinking I wasn't going to get through it to now being through it. Because when you're going through divorce, you really have a hard time seeing the other side. You just can't. 101:59 And I did my divorce remotely, so we did it on Zoom. 102:04 And... 102:06 I actually, the judge announced in the court, I declare you divorced. 102:11 Our divorce hearing was actually kind of sweet because the judge was listing the date, time, place we got married. 102:22 And Cody and I kind of looked at each other on the Zoom and we just smiled because, like, that's a really happy day for people. 102:31 Like, that was our wedding day. That was a huge deal. We just looked at each other and smiled because we knew that we had those happy moments, but we also knew that we were about to start a new part, a new chapter of our lives. 102:44 And then the judge declared us divorced, and I had my best friend, Sydney, with me. And I slammed the laptop shut, and I just started bawling my eyes out to her. And she started bawling her eyes out, because she watched me go through everything. You know, all the people in my life were also very emotional for me. 103:07 And I just gave her the biggest hug, and I hugged her for like five minutes straight. 103:12 And it's like a bittersweet moment for both Cody and I when that day happened. 103:19 And then, you know, we went out to lunch and we celebrated. And a lot of people ask me, why did you celebrate getting a divorce? That's weird. I don't think it's weird at all. 103:30 Cody and I had a beautiful five years together, but we also had five really difficult years together. 103:38 And being able to celebrate the good times, but also the fact that we get to start over now and we're being given a fresh start. 103:48 We learned so much through this marriage. 103:52 And I think Cody and I were just both excited that we get to try again and we get to take time for ourselves to learn who we are and figure things out. So we celebrated for sure. 104:05 I love hearing that. 104:06 Yeah. Divorce doesn't have to be some big scary thing. I mean, I was scared leading up to it, but the day of, it felt like such a weight off my shoulders. Yeah. 104:15 Thank you for taking me back so intimately to so many major days in your life. And your ability to be so present for them is remarkable. When I hear you describe them, I'm like, I'm living these with you right now. And as I'm listening to you, I'm just thinking, wow, you're so present and introspective and... 104:36 available to all the emotions that are going on throughout the day, no matter how difficult they may be. Yeah. 104:41 People always say that about me. They're like, you're the most active influencer I've ever seen, constantly filming, constantly posting, yet you're the most present person I've ever seen. 104:52 And that's very accurate about me. It's evident. Yeah, it's evident. 104:55 The way you describe a day, I'm like, God, you didn't miss a detail. You're right there. I'm always right there. And also not just physically. I mean, you're feeling all the emotions that are coming up with it. And it makes me so happy knowing that you and Cody could look at each other in that moment, appreciate how beautiful that wedding day was, and look at the reality of those five years in both the joy and the pains and then celebrate and say, I feel like that's what everyone would want to want when they're moving on from someone. 105:29 It's not the case for everybody. So I feel really lucky that it was the case for me. I mean, I'm not saying my divorce was squeaky clean easy. I don't think it is for anybody. Cody and I have lots of disagreements. And like I said, we would have explosive fights. But it's like at the end of the day, when you decide you're getting a divorce, all of that's over. 105:48 So put it to the side. 105:50 And I did. 105:53 How do you grieve an old life and also be happy for the new one that you're building? Because as you said, bittersweet, there's always that. 106:00 Yeah. I'm someone who's really open to anything. I'm open to failure. I'm open to change. I'm not afraid of change. I'm open to spontaneity. 106:11 And so I'm grateful for the last five years. I'm really appreciative that they happened. 106:19 And that is what allows me to move forward. I'm looking forward to the next five years. 106:28 I think you what's that saying? You grow through what you go through. 106:33 One hundred percent. 106:36 And they say your 20s are the hardest years of your life. 106:39 Is that true? 106:40 I mean, I don't know. I'm still living in it. 106:44 But, you know, as I'm next year, I'll be 29 and then 30. And I'm like really excited for my 30s and the future. I'm so young. I think people just forget how young I am. I'm just figuring it out. I'm figuring everything out as I'm growing. Yeah, yeah. 107:04 And I feel like every decade brings its own you know, awakening moment. Yeah. But definitely, I think like in your 20s, you're figuring out a lot more than you're figuring out in your 30s or your 40s or whatever may come. I'm at the end, I'm 39 now. You're 39. I'm 39, yeah, yeah. So I'm a decade older. 107:25 Well, you know what they say about 40? What's that? That's when you really stop caring what people think. 107:30 Yeah. So your 40s are going to be great. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. 107:34 But you recently announced as well to your community that you're dating again and a new relationship. Yeah. You actually knew each other at high school. 107:42 Yeah. So this is a very confusing story to my audience because I haven't really told it. Yeah, please. So I dated a guy in high school named Zach. 107:53 And Zach was my first love. 107:56 Zach was my first. I'm in love with this person. Oh, my God. Type of feeling. 108:02 And we dated in high school and we ended up just not working out. You're in high school. Big whoop. Everyone's like, well, they didn't work out in high school, so it can't be like they can't work out. No, it was high school. 108:16 I was a year above him. I graduated before him. So when I went off to college, he was still in high school, and my feelings for him were just so strong. But our lives were too different. 108:29 I was in college, and he ended up going into the Air Force. 108:33 And while he was in the Air Force for years, he said, Michaela, please, like, give me a chance. Give me a chance. Like, and he lived in Nebraska and Texas and all over the place. And I said, no, like, I'm not doing long distance like that. 108:48 And I just constantly told him, no, like, go away. 108:52 But him and I were really good friends, really good friends. I could talk to him about anything. Even though we broke up in high school, we remained good friends. I sat next to him in class. He was one of my closest friends for a long time. 109:06 But he had feelings for me, and I didn't want to be with him because of that distance. I didn't want to be with someone in the Air Force. There were too many factors where it didn't make sense. I was in college. I was busy. But for years, he literally tried to get me back. 109:21 When I got married, when I started dating Cody, he went radio silent, which I that's really respectful. Like he said goodbye, even though he was my friend. He was like, you're married like goodbye. 109:33 So I really respected that about him, even though I knew he had feelings for me. I'm in a relationship I married and he took a full step back and said, I'm not trying to get in the way of that. 109:43 So I didn't talk to him for many, many years, except when I saw that he finished his term in the military. Because we grew up right down the street from each other. 109:54 So I saw that he moved back home. 109:57 And I just sent him a message, like a nice, like friendly message. And I said, I saw you just got back home and out of the Air Force. I just wanted to say, like, thank you for your service. Congrats on everything. I hope you're doing well. Just drove by your house, thought of you. And that was it. 110:15 When Zach saw that I was getting a divorce, because I'm very public about it, that was the first time I heard back from him, where he said, hey, I saw you're getting a divorce. I just want to say I'm here for you, like if you need someone to talk to. 110:29 So I started talking to him, just as friends. 110:32 Because we were friends. We were friends for years. 110:35 And at that point, I didn't have feelings for him. 110:38 And I didn't think he had feelings for me anymore. At that time, so much time had gone by. 110:43 And then he was really there for me through my divorce. 110:48 Really, really supportive and just kind. And if I needed to talk to someone, he was there. And he's just a really, really good guy. 110:56 And then a lot of people ask, like, but you started dating him while you were getting a divorce. And that's just how my life played out. 111:06 Cody and I were fully separated. We were not together. 111:09 And I know there's mixed opinions on whether you should date someone while you're getting a divorce. But I didn't really have a choice with that because Zach and I's connection grew really strongly. And I'm not the type of person to pass on a connection like that. 111:27 So months into my divorce, I decided, you know what, Zach, let's like go get dinner. Casual, just friends. 111:36 So we went to the Cheesecake Factory and we got dinner. 111:41 And in that moment, I knew that I think I was meant to be with him. 111:48 And our connection was just really special. And I sat in that cheesecake factory with him for three hours, talking. 111:57 And then after we left, he sent me a text. 111:59 And he said, he said, I just want you to know, like, I want to be with you and I'm going to fight for you. And I was like, okay. And then we've just been inseparable since. So, yeah. 112:13 How do you decide now how much you let your community in and update them and tell them? What have you learned about that? 112:19 My community hasn't fully come around to Zach because Cody and I were married. And a lot of people just don't know the story about Zach and I or about Cody. There's just so many details, which obviously I'm not going to tell the entire internet. 112:34 But they've learned about it today. 112:36 They're learning a lot about it today. A lot about it today. 112:39 But I sprinkled in bits and pieces of Zach. 112:45 And I was going to keep the relationship pretty private. But then, like I said, when you date an influencer, you have to be open to being in the public eye. So Zach and I were getting spotted in public. People were taking photos and videos of us in public. And then the conversation just spirals. And then you don't really have a choice. 113:05 And that's actually what happened with Cody and I as well. They spotted Cody and I out in public. And then I decided, you know what, screw it. I'm just going to start talking about Zach. 113:17 How does it feel that you were able to go through some of the most difficult years of your life, some of the most personally painful moments, hold on to your career that was always so important to you and now also launch such a successful brand and POV. I mean, it feels like that's been such a priority for you since being a little girl, since being a teenager. 113:42 You're on this side of it now where you have something that's, you know, doing incredibly well. Like, talk to me about what that means to you at this point and what it feels like to have your own brand that's solving a challenge and a problem and a gap in the market. 113:59 What's crazy to me is if you think of everything I've done in my career and everything I've gone through in my life, and I'm 28, to launch a brand is huge. That is a huge deal, and I'm extremely grateful that I've been given the opportunity. 114:17 When I was working at Ulta, it was such a special position for me because as someone who really struggled with acne, people would come into the store and they would open up to me about insecurities, similar to what I had. 114:32 They would talk to me about their acne, say they're a burn victim, say they have skin cancer, say they struggle with rosacea, PCOS, eczema, any sort of skin condition that can cause you to feel insecure. They're coming into Ulta looking for a solution. Oftentimes they thought the solution was just to slap makeup on their face and it would cover it. But then they would find that, but it doesn't really look very good. Like my makeup doesn't look very good and I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Like that's what I would always hear. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. 115:03 Please help me. 115:05 And I realized there wasn't really like an easy solution to helping these people. I would have to walk all over the store and ask them a million questions about their skin type and their skin texture and their skin conditions. And I would have to really get into it. And I just wanted to create something that was so simple and straightforward and easy and approachable. And I had this idea when I was working at Ulta years and years ago. 115:36 So when I started to be approached by investors, they would want to bring me an idea. 115:42 And I said, no, no, no, I have the idea. So then I would pitch to them my idea. Because that's what happened. They saw the selling potential I had, so they would come to me with this already preconceptualized brand that they would want me to be the face of. And I said, no, no, no, that's not what I want to do. I've had this idea for so many years and this is what I'm going to do. 116:07 And I really had to go, the same way I'm telling you about this now is exactly how I would tell it to them. 116:15 And they would kind of shake their head and be like, you know what? Yeah, that is interesting. Skin prep, this whole concept of skin prep. 116:22 The investors trusted that and they trusted that I could bring that vision to life. And I thought that was really cool that they took my idea and ran with it. 116:30 That's amazing. Yeah. From working at Ulta, the 14-year-old writing a makeup blog, uploading a video, to at 28 having a brand, it's pretty awesome. Yeah. It's pretty incredible. Thank you. Talk to me about the decision between Ulta and Sephora because that must have been like... Yeah. Everyone wants you at this point. Oh, yeah. 116:51 Yeah. We had conversations with Ulta. We had conversations with Sephora. 116:56 But the reason I chose Sephora... 116:59 is if you look at Sephora's top brands, you're going to notice that they're founder brands. They're brands that a founder came in, had a really strong vision, and brought it to life. Makeup by Mario, Patrick Ta, Charlotte Tilbury, Patrick Starr, all of these founders... 117:17 who have these visions and brought them to life. Sephora does an exceptional job at helping these founders bring those visions to life. I always say, if you were to walk into a Sephora and go in front of all these founder brands and remove the founder's face and name from the brand and not know whose brand is whose, you would still be able to say, that's Mario, that's Patrick Todd. You would know because they do such an exceptional job at curating brands that are authentic to the founder. 117:49 And that's what I wanted. 117:51 And that's why I went with Sephora. And so far, they've truly been an exceptional thought partner to work with. They have this thing called in the kitchen, where when you're developing products, they're developing the products with you because they're looking at trends. They're looking at the analytics. They're looking at what sells. And it's just really collaborative. So a lot of people have been asking me, did I make the right choice now that we've been in Sephora for about a month? And absolutely, absolutely without a doubt. 118:20 Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. You know, you sold millions of products, promoted so many beauty brands, millions and millions of followers, so many views, building POV, launching at Sephora, available everywhere. What would you say to that little girl who had all these dreams? Yeah. 118:39 So I think I wish that I could go to my 14 year old self and like play her a movie of my life like up to now. 118:50 I just think that would be so crazy for her to watch. 118:54 She wouldn't believe you. She would think it's a movie. It's scripted. It's it's it's a plot. 119:00 But then like if you were to tell her at the end, this is going to be your life. 119:04 Oh, my gosh. 119:05 oh my gosh, but I kind of, I appreciate that, like, we can't see the future because it's so sweet and cool and fun and special to go through all these moments for the first time, like the firsts. 119:22 I always am very appreciative of every first and grateful for every first. Like you've seen the way I tell stories. Like I never forget anything. I'm very, I remember everything. So yeah, she would be really, really happy and proud. Yeah. 119:38 Yeah. Yeah. I am so excited to see what you got into doing. I can't wait for you to tell more of those stories because you're a great storyteller. It's beautiful living your incredible moments with you. And it was very, very, very heart touching to hear your personal experience of the challenges, the difficulties, the pains today. We end with the final five, but before we do that, is there anything I haven't asked you that you wish I asked you or something that you've really wanted to share that I didn't touch on? 120:07 I don't think so. There's nothing I can really think of. I think you did a really good job. 120:12 No, you've been so generous and so thoughtful. I only ask that because I like to make sure that you've really been able to share your heart because you have been. I really felt that today and I don't want to... 120:25 Take that for granted to give you space to share. But Michaela, we end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum. Okay, got it. So Michaela- Hard for me. 120:39 Michaela Naguera. No, you're very eloquent and well-spoken, but Michaela Naguera, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? 120:49 Don't give up. 120:51 Who told you that? 120:53 manager at all though. Nice. That's awesome. Lindsay. Yeah. Lindsay. Second question. What is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? 121:03 Not all of your dreams can come true. 121:05 What would you say to someone who says that? 121:08 That's bullshit. 121:10 I love that. 121:10 That's good. 121:12 A college professor said that to me, by the way. 121:14 Oh, really? 121:16 In response to what did you say to get that reaction? I said, follow your dreams. 121:21 And they replied, not all of your dreams can come true. 121:24 And I thought that was ridiculous. 121:27 And I'll never forget them saying that. 121:29 Do you remember their name? No. 121:33 I'll send this to them. Question number three, how do you define a good friend? 121:39 They're there for you at your very best moments, but also your absolute worst. 121:44 Yeah, it's both those moments, not just one. Yeah. Because you have some people who are only there for your worst and some people only there for your best. Yeah. And your real ones are there for both. 121:53 And you don't want to be friends with jealous people. That's my best advice. 121:58 Why? Jealousy is, in my opinion, the root of all evil. I don't like jealousy. You want to lift people up. You want to encourage people. You want to support the people around you. I see, you know, all three of me and my Sydney and Sam, my best friends, we all do the same thing. We're all beauty influencers and people constantly try to like tear us apart. 122:17 And I'm like, we're not like that. We support each other. We lift each other up. We know we can all succeed in this space. 122:23 Well said. 122:24 Fourth question. What did you used to value that you don't value anymore? 122:29 Wow. 122:31 What did I used to value that I don't value anymore? Wow. 122:35 Okay, I'm going to cheat a little because I literally can't answer this in one sentence. Sure, please. I think I used to think very differently about marriage. I think I used to think that marriage was like all happy and butterflies and you get married and it's like this whole thing. But really, I've learned to value marriage differently that I will be taking forward into my future whole marriage. Yeah. 122:59 Yeah. Fifth and final question. We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? 123:09 Ban cyberbullying? 123:12 Like, I don't know how they would do that. 123:15 There's some smart AI in the world. 123:17 That would be amazing. I wish the internet was... a more positive place, especially social media, because I think a lot of people go to social media for it to be a safe space. But a lot of times it's not. 123:32 So that's what I would do. I would ban cyberbullying. 123:36 Michaela Nogueira, thank you for your openness, your vulnerability, just your thoughtfulness today. I've learned so much from you and I can't believe you're only 28. I mean, that's incredible. And I genuinely hope you'll come back year after year and tell us what you've done, what you've achieved, what you've learned, because it's pretty fascinating watching your journey. So thank you so much. And I'm so grateful that you chose to come and share your story with me truly. 124:02 Yeah. Well, thank you for always giving a safe space to talk about things, especially regarding mental health and just major life moments. I've been asked to talk about a lot of these things for so long, and I never felt the right person came along to talk to about it until you. 124:20 Well, I don't take that for granted. It means the world to me, truly. Yeah. Thank you so much. 124:24 Thanks, Michaela.